Yes, I personally witnessed how our officers responded immediately to a man brandishing a classical guitar in front of the Carribou on Friday. Thankfully they took care of business by taking down his name, telling him to return the offending instrument to its case and thanks to those two officers Main Street was totally clean of all non AB and E attending pedestrians assuring maximum profitability for Mr.Witz.

Very easy to denigrate police officers when you don't give your name, right? You should be "proud" to give us your name. I for one, am thankful for all our public safety employees regardless of their patrol assignments.

Rick I get your drift. I did not know Witz also protects himself using LLC's . Are you sure that is true because if that is the case while he is protected from a slip and fall or other liability related to his event it would leave Royal Oak liable for bringing him in? I presume Royal Oak paid thousands for the extra insurance, and I would like to know how much the city had to lay out.
Did you know that the Rochester Arts and Apples next week is the second largest Art Fair in Michigan (not AB and E) AND, its run by several non profits made of organized citizens that handle everything including the booking of entertainment and the cleaning up at NO expense to Rochester taxpayers with the possible exception of police overtime which I assume is minimal as I have been there and did not see the same heavy and costly police and Oakland Sheriff presence we have for AB and E which WE not Witz cover the bill for.

Taxpayer, You have NOTHING to apologize for though I wish you would use your real name. Neither does Officer Teichow who has the same right as you to his opinion no matter what motivated him to express it.
As for Zach who believes that our officers are overworked and underpaid, so are a lot of other everyday workers in both the public and private sector who suffer in silence and do not complain. I suppose you think this will get you a pass to the next policeman.s ball.

I agree with the lack of police presence in the neighborhoods. I live on Vinsetta and my neighbor had her car broken into at 6:30 in the morning. My other neighbor literally saw the thiefs running away from the car. She called the police and was told "M'am, you realize Arts, Eats and Beats is going on, We won't be able to send an officer for about 5 hours." It was 6:30 in the morning!!! I'm pretty sure A, E and B was not happening. That response was ridiculous

And all that time I thought the tantalizing smell of seared meat was coming from the outdoor "Eats".

What does Wolf know about police work or guidelines?

Back to the subject of the taser and my opinion which I am sure PotatoE head will rant about until his medication kicks in. I am not against this sidearm. However since the RO police started carrying them there have been several incidents of their use mostly on uncooperative drunks downtown. As RO is infested with lawyers and unfortunately our city has suffered costly lawsuits in recent years I would hope that our police have established guidelines for this less dangerous than a gun option as it can be fatal if used on a person with a heart related illness. I formerly requested my intelligent readers to please omit the "Its safer than a gun in a crowd" arguement.. Suggesting officers request backup if feasible before considering the use of a taser to subdue is reasonable if just to protect our city from an alleged "perp's" lawyer. Its only a matter of time. While it is obvious it is safer than a forty caliber slug I still would recommend an officer call in for backupn IF feasible before the use of a potentially deadly weapon of any kind, even a wooden baton. Especially in a crowd armed with cell phone cameras.
No I am not an officer, nor an attorney, nor a doctor just a citizen exercising the first amendment despite the masked threat from the likes of one coward hiding behind a starchy vegetable who wants me to know he knows where I live; made evident every time I approach the podium at a commission meeting..

Cheryl, there was all types of security there. R.O police and fire for EMS reasons , Regis Security, who was probably hired by AB&E. Staff from AB&E, etc. Several layers I would say. I was there all four days working. I did not see anything happen while I was there, but I wasn't there late night either, I'm sure some stuff probably went on,but I didn't hear of anything major.

Calm down Cheryl. The police are not always angels. You know the experience I had in our building and fortunately video cameras do not lie like some residents, and an officer embellishing a report to favor a retired officer. As it all worked out in the end so I only made a mention of it to the chief. Being a cop is often stressful considering they have to deal with the sight of death which is often not pretty. I can understand the temptation to lionize the profession but like any other profession you can have some bad apples. I have seen both sides.

Sorry Ron, have not been on for a couple of days, to pissed off. In all fairness to you, yes, that did happen to you and it left a bitter taste. Once an officer and belonging to the faternal order of, everything is status quo, even when retired (brothers /sisters forever). And i know the person you are and educated people do make the right choice in the end.

Thankfully this city has a Chief whom I would prefer to be made a full chief instead of an "acting" Chief. In general I have always supported the police even during the infamous Democratic convention after the hoods (or pigs) employed as police by Chicago under a megalomaniac mayor went Rodney King on unarmed demonstrators. I have even supported a police chief who was unjustly accused of drunkeness by some idiot on the West Bloomfield council motivated only by politics. This was despite the fact we butted heads on one suggestion to hire to reflect our changing demographics which he eventually came around to doing (I am a staunch advocate of diversity as diversity ensures the perception of fairness.). I do not understand why some claim I am anti-police just because I do not wrap myself in a flag and salute. My record speaks for itself. I marched to support the Pontiac FD, supported the remnants of the Pontiac PD despite my dislike for the chief. Even used the services of the West Bloomfield police to obtain my cpl after I moved to Pontiac from West Bloomfield. I have always posted my opinion that voting against public safety to protest what you don't like about our commission is cutting your nose to spite your face (criminals are ever-present and apolitical). Still I have a right to express my opinion when police are given orders to sweep Main Street of one musician at the wishes of Jon Witz. The commission and Witz, not the police are at fault here!

You are right, but what part of the term "IF feasible" do you not understand. As a cpl holder I am aware of the false bravado and confidence in knowing you are armed gives you. Probably just as true in young less experienced officers. Look at the Zimmerman incident for one example of exactly what can occur. Do you see what I am talking about?
As a teacher in Hells Kitchen and Harlem I also received a few knocks (not in Detroit because by then I learned to disarm most trouble by talking to it),
In police work some things have been made better, some things have gotton worse eg the disappearance of the two in a car patrol so necessary for domestic disputes.
I am aware that in your case I am preaching to the choir.

If you had bothered to actually read my comment on this issue, it was in response to a promoter (Witz), who makes a ton of money on this event, stating we should raise our taxes so he can continue to make money in our town.

Why comments on this story got so off track and focused on the police, who as far as I can tell handled the event well, is a mystery.

Mr. John Saylor, Very well said. It is very good to see an issue expressed from a well balanced perspective. I'm very proud of our Royal Oak police, fire and all city workers. They have stepped up and have given concessions on their contracts. It is now time for the citizens to step up and pass the milage for safety. We want the best officers and employees for the city, and not to lose them to other municipals for better pay and benefits. If others have issues with the downtown patrols, costs,neglect of neighborhoods etc., than get to the city comission meetings and let the comissioners know your complaint!

So, Karlowski, what's the difference between Witz and say, the owner(s) of any other bar downtown? Admittedly,, the bar owners will have to pay any increase in taxes, while Witz won't. But neither gets to vote on it unless they live in Royal Oak.

Tax Tax - I believe you answered your own question. Other entities, either directly or indirectly (via their landlords) PAY taxes on their establishments and will be affected by any tax increase. (I am not going to get into the DDA versus general fund arguement.)

Expressing an opinion on a singular item and my support of our police department are two seperate issues. I have always posted support for our public safety milages including Police, the FD, and especially our EMS equally. I am just as upset when I see all the time and hard work done by our mayor and CITCOM go down the drain just because it is human nature to circle the wagons to defend a fellow commissioner who is obviously wrong. Royal Oak needs more gadflys, not just sophomoric snipers aflicted with ADD who do not bother to read the full story.

I'll try this again.

If Mr. Witz is worried that if the millage fails the festival contract will not be extended, I suggest he look at perhaps sweeting the deal to the city to make it more appealing/less financially budensome/risky. It is very easy to tell other people to spend more of their money.

All the business you site pay property taxes, directly or indirectly, which will be raised should the millage increase request be approved by the voters.

If you would like to document what property taxes Witz pays with regard to AB&E, I will be happy to retract my statement.

As for the singling out part, I don't recall anybody from the Dream Cruise mentioning anything about the millage increase. If they had, my response would have been the same.

My comment has nothing to do with the event planning or execution.

I would really like to see evidence of that. Usually when restaurants put out half off, or happy hour all day today banners, or retailers advertise fifty percent off they are trying to draw traffic to their business because they expect stiff competition from AB and E. Though I did not explore the festival this year I know for a fact that many small businesses close their doors when they are walled off to make room for the human stampede. This is not to detract from the benefits to deserving non profits and yes there are those that sock it away if they have the right location, but there are also those who financially suffer in silence, and they are not a minority. Take a look at the Arts and Apples happening this weekend in Rochester. Its the second largest Art Fair in the state and it is organized entirely by volunteers who do not ask for entire streets to be closed off, or for money in advance.

Do not be ridiculous. These events cannot be compared to an event that takes over like Sherman took Atlanta.

Wolf, Your analogy is poor. A large art fair is not a comparison to an event with tons of bands that have to be paid. They also don't have anywhere near 300,000 attendees.

It boils down to whether AB and E is a necessity or a luxury that we farm out regardless of the risks taken and the increasing costs to the city. RO may not have the experience to duplicate an event of this size but it does have an army of volunteers including scouts and garden clubs who would be happy to jump in if our fair city eased up on the bureaucratic red tape eg. park maintenance and trimming of neglected areas whether downtown,or next door..

One more time - If a person is coming into Royal Oak and is making money using city services, who is also paying nothing in taxes to the city, comes out with a statement that the residents should raise our taxes so he/she can keep getting the services he/she has been used to, my response is he/she should start putting some of their gains toward paying for those services or keep quiet.

For all the other events you mentioned, only the Dream Cruise uses anywhere near the staff time, and most are fun, non-profit, cultural/family events. To my knowledge, none of the organizers is speaking out on the millage increase (as an event spokesman).

It does seem inconguous does it not? I don't know about code enforcement but I do know the response from DPW and our lone engineer regarding sidewalks is excellent despite the increased workload. I know this from experience and I have never lived in a town where this is demonstrated, even West Bloomfield.
As for code enforcement you should make your complaint known to mayor Ellison to start. You might be surprised at the result.
Where I get miffed the commission as a whole behaves like a dog chasing it's tail, except in rare situations that scream for action. They have more excuses than the aforementioned dog has fleas. I would like to see our mayor exercise his perogative to rein them in instead of doling out undeserved compliments. Ditto with our city manager whom as I mentioned before acts like the proverbial groundhog that has seen its shadow in regard to the commission whom he perceives as his boss. We do not need people pleasers on our commission whose number one priority is to get along with their co-workers while giving the jobs that beg to be done no attention until they hear enough complaints..

L.Jablonski, well said

Good point and I hope there are others who realise the times we live in and how public safety is being slashed in surrounding communities while in Royal Oak that sometimes seems like the crossroads of all Oakland County's and Detroit's problems this should be the last resort. We do need to make our downtown "lets get juiced bars" more accountable and it must start by not re-electing those who accept their political bribes come election time.

You are wrong for all the right reasons. Why hurt ourselves and our already stressed police department and fire department just to flush away Witz? Why give him all that power? Why do I have to keep repeating that only a moron cuts off his nose to spite his face. Certainly we can just say NO next year to another contract if we have that option. Simply tell the comission that their political careers depend on just saying NO! As for the police who were proud to serve Mr.Witz, you were not serving Mr.Witz, you were serving the citizens of Royal Oak, and a handful of downtown businesses that cleaned up while others closed their doors and took a loss. This does not detract from your exemplary performance though Mr.Witz preferred additional back up from Oakland Sheriffs at YOUR expense (last year it cost us eighty dollars an hour for four sheriffs). I do not know if that mistake was repeated this year, I would not be surprised if Pat Capello who was upset last year may have forgotton about it this year.

Thank you Craig. Well said.

No, that's NOT how Proposal A works. Taxes were frozen when Proposal A passed, unless you sell your property, then the tax pops-up. Otherwise, tax "increases" can only go up with the rate of inflation (but only up to 5%).

That limitation PREVENTS taxes from doubling or tripling.

I am not a big fan of EMagine, especially since the city does not profit from the parking lot (outrageious). The only reason EMagine would like to extend their bar hours and have a dance permit is that they cater to private parties which no one else does in Royal Oalk and they have bowling which I believe does not attract an unsavory crowd. As for the problems EMagine generates they have not been as bad as some of our bars have. I do sometimes wonder now if the theater was a good idea as most of their patrons leave Royal Oak after the show instead of going to a restaurant, and EMagine has not been much of a participator as far as contributing to our community considering their success. In other words what we have here is another big carpetbagger who takes the money and runs expecting the city to handle any problems as usual. Still not enough of a reason to deny them a dance permit. If Royal Oak would place a small one percent income tax for these absentee owners most of our problems would be solved. Unfortunately, it would also affect resident workers but overall the city would get a big bang for the buck from these baggers and it would be much cheaper than a milage which is more a burden for residents.

From 09/04/12 Tribune story:

"Some police officers worked 14-hour days to handle parking issues, keep order and respond to incidents. Deputy Police Chief Gordon Young said there were six arrests in the festival footprint with one each on Friday, Saturday and Sunday for disorderly conduct and three on Monday. Two people were taken into custody for being disorderly and one for domestic violence at a bar. A man reportedly hit his girlfriend’s arm and she was struck by a glass she was holding."

Bars are protectected from discriminatory taxes by state law. I never heard of a business district "surtax" you would call it a safety tax before. This would be considered hampering business to innvest downtown. Note if anything is hampering businesses its speculators who buy and sit waiting for a mega bar to make an offer to their rent demand that is exhorbitant for retail.
Then there are the greedy landlords (not all) who will sit on a property forever until it is sold for six figures or rented dearly. This is why I suggest a small one percent city income tax. Not much of a burden for anyone working here but a good chunk of change for the Lamborghini and Ferrari drivers who found their pot of gold on Royal Oak's Main Street. Believe me a one percent city INCOME tax will not deter someone from setting up a location they know is hot. Look at all the non resident parking lot owners alone!

"Bars are protectected (sic) from discriminatory taxes by state law" Ronald "Dubya" Wolf

Its the other way around: local governments can only tax if allowed to.

The city has little control over downtown restaurant/bar expansion (except for food/alcohol percntage that makes it more a bar than a restaurant). The city does have control over that change of venue and the stringent enforcement of existing ordinances. But, like anything else where money is involved there is tit for tat mutual co-operaton.
SOLUTION; Do NOT VOTE for ANY commissioner who accepts a dime directly, or indirectly from any "Restaurant/bar". But NOOOOOOO! you keep voting for your favorite sons and daughters based on "personality", and/or history of residency in Royal Oak, or "community involvement" while totally ignoring the eight hundred pound gorilla in the room named "Give Me".

Council Meeting, Commission Meeting, Potato, PotAto, Tomato, TomAto, Can it already! If you look up Royal Oak history of it will say we have a mayoral, council form of government. NOTHING about commissions! Then again maybe you don't attend because of your confusion? Tired of OK, switch to "Oakie" Dokey.

CHAPTER THREE
Form of Government

Section 1. The form of government provided for in this Charter shall be known as the Commission-Manager form. ...

QED

Again continued: Yup, for the first time a "bar czar" who uses the ROPD as if they were his personal bouncers will have to contribute a portion of the booty he drives home with, wherever that home is. I heard that one restaurant bar who contributes to charity and commissioner campaigns clears to and a half mil per anum. That alone should be enough to buy gold epoulets for our parking Stazi and place an officer on every corner, maybe on every doorstep. Next to nothing for the average resident this tiny bite forces the big kahunas to help support the city that gives them a living even though they may not live here. OR, we can like rubes continue to do what we have been doing making the same mistakes again and again, and like rubes continue giving away the farm to every LLC, Glantz, or Witz that comes down the pike.
Mayor Ellison I ask you before you dismiss this try doing a little research on the big cities that charge residents and commuters alike a nominal income tax that in the end benefits the entire city.

CHAPTER THREE
Form of Government

Section 1. The form of government provided for in this Charter shall be known as the Commission-Manager form. ...

QED

Wolf, If you examine the cities that have an income tax, they are all disasters. Not the route you want to go down.

Carol you are so TYPICAL. Do you read a complete sentence before coming to a conclusion? Do you know how many asinine postings there are on commission, vs.council and which is proper. Am I not allowed to say PLEASE STOP,
NO I am not, you overlook the morons who persist and waste our time to go after me because......??? and speaking of FAT PENSIONS otherwise known as golden parachutes, who votes to increase them? Take a guess. Have any idea what Engler collects (excxess of 100,000 last I heard). Judges? Any idea? Health insurance. Any idea. Chrysler and Ford cut back on retirement benefits, but the government NOOOOOOOoooooo way. Why? Can you imagine our "commission" even considering the problem? NooooOOO way!
I have NO suggestions. Yes, I do not know everything. I do know that Bill Shaw has done a lot of work in this area but you, and your friends did not elect him to the commission, or council but I voted for him. Now he is running for county something last I heard. Guess you will overlook him there as well, and still ask this same question to someone you think is cute, or smart but also counting his or her days to retirement and a FAT PENSION!

Ronald Wolf
12:01 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012
Council Meeting, Commission Meeting, Potato, PotAto, Tomato, TomAto, Can it already! If you look up Royal Oak history of it will say we have a mayoral, council form of government. NOTHING about commissions! Then again maybe you don't attend because of your confusion? Tired of OK, switch to "Oakie" Dokey.

FROM THE RO CITY CHARTER (1921):
CHAPTER THREE
Form of Government
Section 1. The form of government provided for in this Charter shall be known as the Commission-Manager form. ...

The reason posters rip into you Ron, is because you are rude and wrong much of the time when you post. And, your comments at the commission meetings (or is it "council" because after all you've checked RO "history") are exemplars of arrogance.

Before you pollute the board again with assumptions, call the bureaucrats in city hall for answers - they always seem to answer mine. Or, maybe your elected officials.

http://www.ci.royal-oak.mi.us/portal/departments/city-commission

Ron, take a Xanax. If your read Carol's post closely, her comments were directed at QED, not you. Looks like she was actually agreeing with you. Calm down, pal.

CC Tom, I'm responding to Wolf. Dubya

...and my post was directed at Mr. Wolf.

Side bar: Yes I know that is "sort" not sought. AND maybe we do need more RO citizens to go up to the commission as a group to demand something be done about pensions as well as other problem areas, more to the point, ask the commission to form a commitee to see what pressures RO can bring to at least cut them back ten percent just as some unions have aceded to cutting back wages and health benefits here in RO and other cities, why re-invent the wheel?
How about cutting back on all city subsidized events as far as carrying a professional planner. We will make mistakes with home grown volunteers , but we will learn and get better at it. Look how far tiny Ferndale's downtown has progressed in the event department with added events every year.. They are not 'raking' it in but they are pleasant and for the most part profitable for all involved, and the stores can stay open if they choose. Royal Oak ain't cheap, now that its all grown up and yuppified why why why give it away? If we only asked downtown for help half as much as they ask city hall for help maybe we would have a better city all round.