I don't have strong feelings one way or another on a human rights ordinance, but I do feel strongly that the city should follow the vote of the residents. Duke, how do you feel about the city commission just ignoring the mandate vote of the people that happened in 2001 on this issue?

Put the shoe on your foot LMT. Suppose a landlord openly told you he or she did not rent to people like you and has that right. You then make a complaint before a city commissionm or the police and they ignore you, or advise you see an attorney. Oh by the way you have purple hair, and a ring in your nose, or you are wearing a yalmalka, have a foreign accent, , or your spouse is the same gender, or a different race. How would you feel?
Not so long ago a common signs read: "We have the right to refuse service" . period, No reason needs to be given,

Ron, ignore the specific issue of Human Rights for a second. Focus on a 7 member body ignoring a vote of the people. That's what the focus should be. This commission is nullifying the vote on this very issue that happened in 2001. Thousands of Royal Oak'ers objected to this ordinance, matter of fact by a 2 to one margin. Why isn't that voter referendum being respected.

Personally, I don't really object to a human rights ordinance, but since the voters have spoken on the issue, I think the way to impliment an ordinace at this point, would be to ask the citizens again. Otherwise, the city commission is just ignoring the citizens who decided this in 2001.

PS.....I agree that the rights of minorities shouldn't be decided by citizen referedum, but since the citizens were polled in 2001, the precedence has been set on this issue.

A. Chambers. Since the city has already voted on this issue I don't believe the commission can unilaterally implement the ordinance--they'll have to put it back before voters.

Not necessarily, Tom. I would have to do some research, or maybe someone else may recall, but it may have been put on the 2001 ballot as an "advisorary" referendum, and was non binding.

Please share this video from Rochester Hills with everyone you know in the Royal Oak area. Hopefully your town will not make the same mistake Traverse City did. Ever since Traverse City passed the "Gay Rights Ordinance" the homosexual community has become more emboldened and have been acting out, there have been assaults on Christians using the ordinance as a tool to prevent anyone in Traverse City from speaking out against the homosexual lifestyle choice.

http://youtu.be/2fquTyxiR2s

It was not an advisory referendum, it was up or down for a tax increase. Failed 2-1.

A Chambers, we have a mayor who too often when cornered into making a decision one way or the other passes the buck and orders a poll be taken at city expense, or requests that the issue be placed on a ballot.
Meanwhile, we have an ethics ordinance that has obviously been put on the shelf with a situation that has not been cleared up yet. I guess the next election will clear up these issues, or not depending on the weather politically.

Anytime you bestow Special Rights in the form of giving homosexuals a protected status, you are, and will continue to, strip other citizens of their right to free speech, religious freedom, and the right to teach your children about the dangers of the homosexual lifestyle choice. You will also be infringing on private property and the rights of bossiness to operate without being hindered by local government.

Wow! Thanks for posting that link Paul. The Rochester council member in the video must be an attorney. He made a powerful statement. Compare Rochester's city council/attorney member to our commissioner/ attorney member Poulton. It was painful trying to follow Poulton's disjointed comments during this discussion item.

Why is this a "must see?" It is one guy telling why he is voting against EQUAL rights in Rochester. Your later claims about "special rights" is off track. All our citizens deserve the same treatment as everyone else--iShould be a given. t is sad that we even have to have a vote on it! And false scare tactics about a "ruined" Traverse City won't work on anyone.

Please share this video from Rochester Hills with everyone you know in the Royal Oak area. Hopefully your town will not make the same mistake Traverse City did. Ever since Traverse City passed the "Gay Rights Ordinance" the homosexual community has become more emboldened and have been acting out, there have been assaults on Christians using the ordinance as a tool to prevent anyone in Traverse City from speaking out against the homosexual lifestyle choice.

http://youtu.be/2fquTyxiR2s

Ray Smith, What a statement! Mr. Poulton should speak for himself as he was elected to do, otherwise your statement is heresay and overuled!

Hi, remember me? I'm said Constitution that also states that slaves are 3/5th of a person. You probably don't care much for the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments either.

Check your history Zach ,Slavery, racial and religious segregation, citizenship rights denied to native americans, anti-miscegination laws, no child labor laws, women and blacks not allowed to vote, no Miranda rights, no unions, no social security, no medcare, all under the protection of the US Constitution at one time.

Zach Johnson.The U.S. Constitution has Amendments!

Please share this video from Rochester Hills with everyone you know in the Royal Oak area. Hopefully your town will not make the same mistake Traverse City did. Ever since Traverse City passed the "Gay Rights Ordinance" the homosexual community has become more emboldened and have been acting out, there have been assaults on Christians using the ordinance as a tool to prevent anyone in Traverse City from speaking out against the homosexual lifestyle choice.

http://youtu.be/2fquTyxiR2s

I hope you are being facetious Bill. I mean about Zach being a breath of fresh air.
That this bru ha ha has generated so much vitriolic attention is shamefull. The old saying of the more things change the more they remain the same is still appropriate. If it was your toes that were affected I think you also would take this seriously Bill. Like a stopped clock is right twice in twenty four hours, the city commission can also be right if when political winds are favorable.
I wish both yourself and the commission would get this passionate on improving a certain downtown park, but that is not in the script of their movie, or yours I guess. More parking for the EMagine Theater is more urgent.

Bill Shaw, Royal Oak is one of the most stable cities in Michigan and one of the most desirable cities to live in. There are many cities in southeast Michigan that have rats,road problems and dwindling finacial conditons. WOW!

Both Paul Napote and Rochester's Mayor Tisdale cherrypick their arguements to cover and justify their own bigotry. While I am not always comfortable with open displays of sexuality, and admit I am an old %&% who still winces at mixed race couples, and gays kissing in public I do realize that my learned prejudices if acted on is biged. A slippery slope that could end with a knock on your door by our American morality police, homegrown versions of the Taliban long exampled by the likes of the Klan, Fr.Coughlin, Farakhan, and David Duke types to name just a few in our past and present.
We only recently have had the right to practice our religion, but not the right to inflict its on others. What goes on behind closed doors between consenting adults is none of our business. Rasor is right, but is a poor choice to carry the flag in this dog fight.
At the times of John Adams and Thomas Jefferson property owining included slave owning.
The Nazis first targeted the mentally handicapped and homosexuals in their deranged plans to purify the Aryan race
For Tisdale to place property rights over civil rights in local courts does a diservice to all those victimized by discrimination. To claim that local courts must defer to higher courts to enforce civil rights a bigoted cop out.
Conversely, there is no obligation tor a city to place gay rights, or any minority's rights in the form to bumper stickers on city vehicles, Tell that to Sweeney.

Drum up more business? What

Please share this video from Rochester Hills with everyone you know in the Royal Oak area. Hopefully your town will not make the same mistake Traverse City did. Ever since Traverse City passed the "Gay Rights Ordinance" the homosexual community has become more emboldened and have been acting out, there have been assaults on Christians using the ordinance as a tool to prevent anyone in Traverse City from speaking out against the homosexual lifestyle choice.

http://youtu.be/2fquTyxiR2s

It was 12+ years ago. times change, people are more accepting and tolerant. Hopefully

The homophobic Republicans elected elsewhere in MI to the state legislature.

You are so right Jules, humans should not have the right of protection against other humans who outnumber them. Dog eat dog. Right?
The majority rules. Slaves, and non believers have no rights unless we give them rights.
Whose "We" among the thousands by the way?
Is there a salute so we can recognize each other?

So who decides to just ignore the vote of the people in 2001? Put it on the ballot again if you want to know how Royal Oak residents feel. I am extremely uncomfortable in having ANY 7 members of the community, albeit elected, nullify a democratic vote.

It cuts both ways. I would be just as uncomfortable if the city commission was packed with conservatives who ignored the vote of the people to futher their agenda.

I am clearly against creating a special protected class of citizen due solely to their unnatural attraction to people of the same sex. Gay activist are only using this venue to try to overturn Michigan's protection of marriage laws. Just as in every city who has been duped into the oh poor me victim scenario, the homosexuals demanding special rights could not and will not produce one real example of who and why a city should force it's citizens to accept as normal, what every morally straight human being understands. That there is a difference between natures law, and sexual perversion. Eighty percent of prisoners who are now doing time for molesting children identify themselves as homosexuals. Does anyone in their right mind actually believe that a group of people afflicted with an all consuming desire to identify themselves by their sexual desires really need to be "More Equal" than the rest of the population.

It's not about what the "intention" of the ordinance is, it's what is written in the ordinance. It's important to /read/ the ordinance and if it comes to a vote, consider its potential consequences, specifically regarding the income and family status sections, and what that may mean to lease agreements, loans, in-store credit, private home sales, and other unforeseen side-effects that accompanied NINJa mortgages.that contributed to the 2008 collapse of the financial markets.

Christ, why not? It was all the way in 2001. It's been 11 years since then. If you don't like it, I'm sure you'll sign the new petition for a plebiscite against this expansion anyway - whether you admit it or not.

Since he citizens already voted on this issue in 2001 and resoundedly turned down a human rights ordinance, it stands to reason that those who want to now enforce a human rights ordinance collect the signatures to put in on the ballot for another vote, not the other way around.

Well expressed Mary and since there are so many Neanderthals still resisting the inclusion of the LGBT community in blood paid rights only demonstrates the need for local legislation aimed at those who feel they have a "G-d given" right to discriminate in practice as well as belief.
Hate crimes are heinious and need a specific laws to reduce them.

R.Harrington,

Unless that's the procedure state laws, the city charter or city acts demand, the city council has the right to pass what the majority of them consider necessary.

Traverse City’s Culture War

Gay activism is what's wrong with the system and the culture of Traverse City as a whole. When someone has offered a civil solution that universally resolves most issues, now and for generations to come. The gay community, rather than agree to disagree, feel the need to tack on the label of "bigot" without knowing anything about them. You are the same as the others who label homosexuals as fags and queers because they are different. This is not the first time I have noted such intolerance in Traverse City’s gay community, a group that demands tolerance. Looks like your sexual preference doesn't change the essential human failing of hypocrisy. Find a mirror. You're a bully too

Thank you for pointing this out. Just looked at Paul Nepote's facebook page - Yikes!

Judy, are you actually requesting someone's opinions be censored because you don't agree with them? There are all kinds of people I wish would shut up but to request they be silenced is not tolerance and is not diverse. Diversity isn't about reading, hearing, and sharing just the opinions you agree with. That type of diversity is both superficial and intolerant.

First of all I am a full time resident of Traverse City, I grew up in Flint, and spent a considerable amount of time in Royal Oak. Between my uncles home in Royal Oak, and the Detroit Zoo, I have many fond memories of Royal Oak. I have been a family values activist for many years startiing in 2001 when the Traverse City Human Rights Commission tried to place Gay Pride Flag bumper stickers on police, fire, public works, and public school buses. All of my facts are 100 percent accurate. I do not hate all homosexuals, however I have learned all of the tricks used by gay activist groups, to sugar coat the facts about the dangers of your lifestyle choice. Homosexuals have all of the very same rights as any other citizen of the United States, there is no need for anyone to be " More Equal " because of their sexual abnormalities. The facts are, a very large percent of homosexuals were molested as children, which is inexcusable, but studies have shown that victims of sexual violence very often go on to commit the same acts that they had to endure. After speaking at a City Commission Meeting, and voicing my opposition to Special Rights for any group, I received death threats, my children were threatened, the local gay friendly newspaper tried to discredit me personally in the eyes of my community. I quickly became aware of who the haters, and bigots really were. I hope Royal Oak has the guts to follow Rochester Hills example in how to respond to the homosexualist demands.

Judy J. Well said.

Is this a requirement on the books? No? Then city council can do as it pleases.

V., the requirement is on the books.

In the city charter, chapter 6, section 10, referring to ordinances voted on by the residents, it reads, "Any ordinance adopted under this Charter, by electoral vote, cannot be repealed or amended, except by electoral vote."

This means that any ordinance may not be passed or repealed by the city commission after it has already been voted on by the electorate. This is common language in municipal ordinances and state constitutions.

http://www.ci.royal-oak.mi.us/portal/webfm_send/454

Thomas Gagne,

Please, reread what you wrote. The voters did not adopt an ordinance back in 2001. They rejected one. Therefore, this particular chapter and section do not apply. So, electoral vote is not necessary.

V, your interpretation is correct. The ordinance was rejected, not adopted, so that language does not apply.

Is ignoring the vote of the people right? The people spoke in this issue in 2001. If you want to ask the voters again, I'm alright with that. I am not alright with ignoring the election results of 2001.

We live in a representative democracy. We elect politicians to make certain decisions for us. And this is precisely what they are doing. Go democracy!

V-

Please explain democracy in "your world" where the results of a vote of the citizens is ignored. If all the supporters of this ordinance is so confidant it has broad support, why are they reluctant to put it in front of the residents (again).

L.Sutton,

Because we don't believe in putting the rights of our friends, neighbors and family members up for a vote. Unlike the opponents of the proposed ordinance (like you and Mr. Nepote believe).

I feel sad for the level of hateful bigotry shown here, the reasons behind it and the attempt to rationalize it by calling equal treatment of all "special rights" for some. I am part of "a real family" and I do not hate or discriminate against others. Nor have I observed this "physical destruction" and "dangerous behavior" of which you speak. The gay couples I have observed or met are all stable people in loving relationships, friendly and caring homeowners, great neighbors, some raising families who would make any parent proud. Everyone should be treated fairly whether you agree with their lifestyle or not. It is pitiable that anyone demeans a relationship based on common interests and affection by suggestiong that partnerships are based solely on sexuality, which homophobes tend to do. And if fair treatment in housing, jobs, education, and legal stautus requires protection from bigots, then it is, in fact, a necessity---not a non-existent problem, obviously. If kindness, acceptance and equality causes you any consternation or distress, then I would look inward toward your own buried demons, rather than attacking those of us who choose to defend the rights of gay friends, neighbors and families from zealots.

Same sex attractions is normal. It is not protection, but equality. And you can keep your luck, would not want it!

Paul Nepote- You sound exactly like the high priest and pharises in the bible. Your comment of "goodies from the goverment only going to the pairing of one man and woman" is hilarious to say the least. With heterosexual divorce rate over 50%, that is such a good job on the SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE!

Paul,

Consider that the last behavior, accurately described, is a result of them being marginalized, criminalized and prosecuted.

Ronnie Boy,
I sure do understand the contributions sodomites have contributed to our culture. Let me give you two wonderful examples of contributors in the Traverse City area. The first is a well know architect and lover of rare musical instruments, such as the actual piano that George Gerswin performed the first original debut of Rhapsody in Blue on. He also was the founder of the Music House Museum, just a few miles North of TC. Unfortunately for him, he was convicted of continually raping a 13 year old boy. On the day he was to appear in court for sentencing he unbuckled his seat belt and, right in front of the West Side Burger King, accelerated, crossed the center line and hit a Cement Truck head on killing him instantly.
He was one of TC's most outstanding gay's at that time.
Next we have a very well know Graphic Artist, and founder of Byte Communications. He and his company design signage for city's all over the country. He was a pioneer in the "Way Finding" business, and had orders from major institutions such as colleges, medical centers,shopping malls and so on. He was caught sodomizing two very young boys in the town of Suttons Bay, just North of Traverse City. Oh did I mention he was very active in our local Equality and a big contributor to the local group who convinced the City Commission to pass our Special Gay Rights ordinance. By the way he is now in prison, hopefully learning the truth of " What you do will turn around and bite you in the ass".

Judy J- Great perspective and very kind hearted. So refreshing to hear kindness.

Judy J,
There are at least 1800 caring loving people in my town, who for years refused to get evolved . We tried to ignore the few homosexuals who on rare occasions would act out, and justified looking the other way by reciting the old saying " live and let live ". While we were looking away, and not paying attention to local politics, there were things happening to our city that one just could not ignore. The first thing that really caught my attention was the closing of one of the most beautiful scenic lookouts and picnic areas in the state. Next two of my favorite nature areas in Grand Traverse County were closed. When a group who were active in the Boy Scouts of America, and the Boy's and Girl's Clubs looked into the loss of these public lands to our use and enjoyment we were finally told by MDOT and the State Police, that those areas had to be closed due to homosexual activity that the State Police and Sheriff's Department could no longer keep under controll due to a lack of personal. Local families and visitors had made an alarming amount of verifiable complaints. Before closing those areas the authorities placed signs warning visitors of the danger at these parks. The homosexual backers complained, so the signs were removed and the parks were permanently closed. This has nothing to do with hatred or homophobia, it had to do with protecting children and common sense. Tell me again why this same group should be given Special Protective Status in Royal Oak?

Paul Nepote, you forgot Jerry Sandusky. I did not seen Penn State closing or heterosexuals being persecuted for the act.

Sending my check in also, Mary. We can identify that hatred and evil are still alive, but cannot "stop them", unfortunatley. It must be a sad existence! Being a devout practicing Catholic, I do not understand the hatred and evil that people use in the name of God,Jesus and religion. Catholicism teaches love and humility!

"Catholicism teaches love and humility!"

People who haven't read the bible or studied Catholicism shouldn't comment on it.

Ron, Why don't you get real. I have four Sons and six Grandsons, I guess in your world that makes me a breeder. If you were to rid the world of those who live by natures design, there would not be a next generation. Unfortunately you need breeders to, on occasion, present you homo's with a few sexual deviant replacements. If the majority had their way, someone would actually verify a "Gay Genetic Marker" which would prove your claim that we were all "Born That Way", it sure would boost the business at the abortion clinics.

The attitude of Paul is the same as Hitler and the Nazis, the world stood up against this evil.

Dude, you lose credibility every time you quote a guy like Ted Kennedy. He should be held accountable for the death of Mary Jo Kopechne. Never forget the Chappaquidick incident. It's like quoting Josef Mengele.

Mr. Smith N. Wesson, With your permission I will quote whom I wish. Dude!

Lianne,
I am glad you brought up this hit piece in the northern express, I eluded to this in a earlier post, when I said that the homosexual activist's tried to discredit me with my community. Queer Traverse City Commissioner Jim Carruthers was really pissed when I turned in the signatures on a referendum petition that put the gay special rights ordinance on the ballot. You can believe what you want but you will never know how inaccurate the story was. The only people that got hurt was the Northern Express. The owner apologized to me and allowed me to write a complete editorial and he published it along with a personal "sorry". That hit job helped me raise more money then all my connections with the business community. Even the local newspaper, who is the most gay friendly publication in northern Michigan, commented on the ethics of that publication. Thank you for helping me prove my point, that homosexual political activist's are the most hateful, dishonest,divisive, and desperate people on the face of the earth.

Lianne- Also thanks for the link. What a sick person. This does not suprise me, this week on Ricki Lake she interviewed the son of Fred Phelps of Westboro church another anti gay radical chrisitian. Fred's two sons escaped from their home to get away from his abuse.

We're doomed! LOL